Rev. David Pileggi on the Iran-Israel War, antisemitism
'What a time to be alive!'
Below is a condensed transcript edited with the help of AI.
Anglican Unscripted: Special Episode 957
Date: March 19, 2026
Host: Kevin Kallsen
Guest: David Pileggi
Kevin Kallsen: Welcome to another edition of Anglican Unscripted. This is a special episode. I'm Kevin Kallsen, and I have David Pileggi with me. We're going to talk about the Middle East, antisemitism, and lots of crazy things going on here in America as well. But first, welcome back to the program, David.
David Pileggi: Well, thank you very much. Please be assured that I am at least one of your many fans here in Israel and other parts of the Middle East. We appreciate keeping up with all the ins and outs of the Anglican world; it helps us take our minds sometimes off the disasters happening around us all the time.
Kevin Kallsen: Yeah, all the time. In fact, I'm just going to say this right now: What a time to be alive.
David Pileggi: It is absolutely incredible. What a shock to be alive at this time, because for many of us—at least in the United States, Europe, and other parts of the world—we've been living in the "post-world bubble". We've had relative security, lots of prosperity, and lots of free time to pursue all kinds of ideologies or hobbies that are now getting us into trouble. Now that world is changing quick, and it's going to be necessary for us to adjust psychologically and spiritually to what's happening around us, and not sit around and talk about the "good old days".
Kevin Kallsen: Well, what were the good old days?. I was born in the 60s and raised in the 70s and 80s. For me, the good old days were living under the Iron Curtain and the Cold War. There was always a threat that somebody over there, for reasons that I did not understand, would want to blow the USA to smithereens. Capitalism, I guess, was the evil of the day. I remember Mr. Burroughs, my history teacher when I was a sophomore in high school. He said, "I think there will be a time that the wall will fall. Maybe in your lifetime, you will see the end of the Soviet Union".
David Pileggi: Okay, that's cool.
Kevin Kallsen: Guess what? It happened. It happened in 1989. Let's talk more then about these extraordinary times happening now. Recently, President Trump and the President of Israel launched attacks on Tehran and Iran and have taken out several layers of leadership in the Ayatollah committee.
David Pileggi: Well, there's actually a division of labor here, and the United States has assigned Israel to taking out Iranian leadership. The estimate is that 50 percent of its critical, upper-echelon leadership has been brought before the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords for judgment. Israel is pursuing a policy specifically trying to degrade the regime and enable people to rise up. Probably more importantly, it is meant to scare the Iranian military into thinking, "We’d be better off overthrowing the mullahs and saving our skin than to continue to fight". As Stephen Kotkin put it last week, if we want the Iranian people to defect, they have to have something to defect to.
Many of the mullahs and top military commanders are being eliminated, and the Israelis are calling up junior officers and police officers, speaking to them in Farsi and telling them, "We know who you are. We know where you live. You need to stand with your people and quit your support of the regime". The Americans are focusing on military targets, and Israel is doing that as well. But there is a division of labor, and it appears that Israel has invested quite a bit of money, time, and energy in penetrating the Iranian regime in a way that the Americans haven't been able to do.
Kevin Kallsen: I am surprised by the intel the Mossad and Israel itself knew about their enemy. They knew Iran very well, top to bottom, and they knew what to do if they ever got the opportunity to take out a group of leadership.
David Pileggi: Well, people do praise Israel’s intelligence agencies and air force, but I’d really like to remind folks that as brilliant as Israel may be, it also is a country that has experienced quite a few screw-ups. At one time you have intelligence services, a military, and a high-tech sector that can be brilliant, and on the other hand, they can sometimes make some of the dumbest mistakes. I always say that so people will have a proper perspective of Israel—don't demonize Israel, but do not begin to idolize or praise Israel in a way that's unjustified. So yes, we have a relatively dramatic success in Iran right now, but of course there was a major screw-up on the border with Gaza on October 7th.
Kevin Kallsen: Yes, there was.
David Pileggi: So there we have it. In one respect, nobody knew anything; in the other respect, everybody knows everything.
Kevin Kallsen: It's the tale of two wars here. You are a priest at Christ Church in Jerusalem. What does the average lay person think now? Is there stress? Is there confusion? Or are they all like, "What a time to be alive?".
David Pileggi: Well, again, we have quite a wide range of reactions. I would say that on the whole, people are in fairly good spirits, but most of us are war-weary. That would include Messianic Jews or perhaps Arab Christians who live in the north. The consensus, at least amongst Israeli Jews and quite a few of Israel's Christians, is that Iran is a danger and it has to be dealt with.
David Pileggi: But at the same time, people are saying, "Why now?" We’ve been through two years of war which have brought death and destruction, not just for Israel but also for Gaza. Palestinians in the West Bank are finding life extremely difficult for a number of reasons and have it harder than the Israeli population. The sentiment, especially last October when Donald Trump was able to bring about a ceasefire and the release of hostages, was: "This is over, and we hope it will finish". Now here is another round that's quite serious. This war has gone on for 20 days now. People are taking it in stride, but it's also frightening at the same time. You have those mixed emotions.
Kevin Kallsen: I agree with you. But one of the problems is that anybody 50 and younger has only understood the violence and the radical Islam following the revolution 47 years ago. For their entire lives, all they know is that the Iranian regime is an enemy.
David Pileggi: Well, it's not that Iran is an enemy; the regime in Iran is the enemy. 90–95 percent of the Iranian population does not go along with the regime; they don't like it. They have shown their disdain for the mullah version of Islam by either converting to Christianity or becoming quite agnostic, religiously speaking. Maybe some of your listeners don't know that Iran is quite a secular state, as the way religion has been shoved down their throats has caused the majority of people to rebel, at least inwardly, and maybe outwardly.
So, the regime is the enemy. Israelis and Iranians throughout history have had a very close relationship. I think, actually, in Iran, Israel is somewhat popular, and on the whole, I think Israelis like Iranians. What happens in the Arab world, or amongst the Arab minority of Israel, is that there's quite a dislike for Shiites and for Shiism. People recognize, even in places like Lebanon, Turkey, and Egypt, that Iran and its Shiite version of Islam is somehow a threat to the stability of the Middle East and also a theological challenge to Sunni Islam.
There is certainly a distaste even amongst the Arab minority here for the Iranian regime and their version of Islam.
"90–95 percent of the Iranian population does not go along with the regime. They don't like the regime. They have shown their disdain for the mullah version of Islam by either converting to Christianity or becoming quite agnostic, religiously speaking."
- Rev David Pileggi
Kevin Kallsen: Doesn't that distaste exist amongst all the Middle East for them? Saudi Arabia doesn't like them, Egypt, Jordan—I think Iran has lost all favor.
David Pileggi: Iran has certainly lost all favor except for Russia and China, who have promised to support and help Iran but have really done very little to come to its aid. They want Iranian oil, but I think on the whole they don't care much for Iran. So, yes, Iran is more or less alone.
Throughout history, this is perhaps a theme that has continued. The Iranians decided they were going to fight the whole Hellenic world, then they were going to challenge Rome with great self-confidence and an extremely high sense of their own self-importance. After challenging Rome, it was the Byzantine Empire, and then of course they were going to challenge Sunni Islam. It's been one empire and one ideology after another: Iran against the world, Iran against the majority.
They're quite a phenomenal people, and the regime is quite sophisticated and very clever. Of course, it's extremely evil and it has brought chaos not only to the region, but it has been at war with the United States for 47 years. I think the statistic, Kevin, is that 80 percent of all American deaths in Iraq were indirectly or directly related to Iran.
Kevin Kallsen: War brings out kooks. We have some anti-Semitic kooks here in America who think they know what's going on, and they will go on television—guys like Tucker Carlson—and put them on their show.
David Pileggi: Exactly. Tucker Carlson claims to be a Christian and, never missing the opportunity to pontificate, may I remind Tucker and all those who are in his train: one of the Ten Commandments says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness". Thou shalt not lie. One may have an honest critique of Israel and Israeli policy, or disagree with the government or military action, but thou shalt not promote propaganda or manipulate and exploit myths.
Tucker Carlson’s claim that Christians in Israel are being persecuted is a downright lie. We have our issues and harassment; things aren't necessarily perfect for us, but to talk about persecution is false. We don't have any martyrs or anyone being beaten for Christ. In fact, we have a lot more religious freedom than Qatar.
Why did Tucker lie about that? To undermine American evangelical support for Israel. He did the same thing in Ukraine by accusing the government of persecuting Christians. Out come the revisionists and the liars who bring nothing but distortion and rile people up. In the end, Jews in the United States suffer from this conspiracy talk, racism, and neo-Nazi ideologies.
"One of the Ten Commandments says 'Thou shalt not bear false witness.' Thou shalt not lie. One may have an honest critique of Israel and Israeli policy—I certainly do. One may disagree with the Israeli government... but thou shalt not lie. Thou shalt not promote propaganda. Thou shalt not ... manipulate and exploit myths."
-Rev. David Pileggi
Kevin Kallsen: But isn't it antisemitism to criticize the government?
David Pileggi: No, it’s not. We have some Christian Zionists who perhaps idolize the state of Israel and can see no wrong in this society, which is very unfortunate. It is not a sin, blasphemy, or "cursing the Jewish people" to be critical of the government of Israel or critical of certain Israeli policies.
It only becomes anti-Semitic when we begin to expect Israel to live by a code of morality that we don't expect from others like China or Russia. It also becomes anti-Semitic when people use old tropes—claims that "those Jews" deceived Donald Trump into starting this war, or that they control Hollywood and the press to lead America into conflict. We even see the old tropes reappearing that suggest Jews use human blood in rituals. Using these conspiracy theories and lies is what promotes antisemitism.
Furthermore, if someone wants the Israeli establishment to alter its policy, pressure and boycotts generally do not work. Israelis respect their friends, and it is their friends who need to have those critical conversations with them.
I cannot think of a worse witness for the church than to be involved in this malicious hatemongering. As Christians, we had a bad history of antisemitism, and we turned a corner after the Holocaust when we saw the consequences of demonizing Jews. Antisemitism not only hurts the Jewish people; it distorts our understanding of God and Scripture. It hurts our witness. How are we going to witness to the world if we are a community promoting crude nationalism or telling the world how "cowardly" Jews or other ethnic groups are?
I cannot think of a worse witness for the church than to be involved in this malicious hatemongering. As Christians, we had a bad history of antisemitism, and we turned a corner after the Holocaust when we saw the consequences of demonizing Jews. Antisemitism not only hurts the Jewish people; it distorts our understanding of God and Scripture. It hurts our witness. How are we going to witness to the world if we are a community promoting crude nationalism or telling the world how "cowardly" Jews or other ethnic groups are?
-Rev. David Pileggi
Kevin Kallsen: Eventually, this will be a victory. At some point, the straits will be opened, shipping will be able to go back and forth, and global oil commerce will continue. How does that add as a prospect to Israel?
David Pileggi: Well, I’m going to hope and pray that this will bring more security to Israel and the region, and that the Gulf states and even Saudi Arabia will improve their relationship with Israel. At the same time, I hope and pray that there will be a new government that comes along in Israel that will want to work towards reconciliation with the Palestinians.
Both Israelis and Palestinians have this notion that we don't have to compromise or reconcile. Some Israelis think they can just build settlements and the Palestinians will eventually realize we aren't going anywhere. There are Palestinians who think they don't have to compromise because they can continue the international demonization of Israel until it is a pariah with no choice but to give in.
Kevin Kallsen: But without Iran, the Palestinian money—the Hezbollah and Hamas terrorism money—is gone.
David Pileggi: Yes, it should hopefully cause many people in Israel to feel more secure. It will certainly pull the plug on Hamas and Hezbollah, as they were supported by Iran. Many are looking forward to the day that Israel joins the Abraham Accords, there is political progress with the Palestinians, and Israel is more integrated into the Middle East.
Our hope at Christ Church is based on Isaiah 19. It prophecies a highway between the great enemies of the ancient world—Assyria and Egypt. It says that in that day, Egypt will be "my people," Assyria "my handiwork," and Israel "my inheritance". People from all these countries will walk on a highway and worship the living God together. We aren't waving the flag of war; we are hopeful that even in the midst of human sin and demonic maliciousness, God will turn evil into good.
The Lord promises that this part of the world, which many see as just a "cesspool of trouble," will actually be a blessing in the earth. God has a "two-eyed vision" for the Middle East. He has a vision for Jews and Israelis, and a vision for Arabs, Persians, Turks, and Greeks. We don't have to hate Arabs to love Jews, and we don't have to hate Israelis to love Palestinians. As outsiders, we should not take up someone else's offense to the point where we can no longer love both sides or work toward reconciliation.
Kevin Kallsen: Let's finish up here. God can use evil for good. After 47 years, who is the greatest evangelist in the Middle East?
David Pileggi: For 200 years, missionary efforts brought schools and hospitals, but the fruit was quite small. But in 1979, a new "evangelist" arrived: the Ayatollah. While he brought chaos and fanaticism, many thoughtful Muslims saw it and said, "If this is Islam, I want nothing to do with it". Many became agnostics, and quite a few others in Iran, Algeria, and Iraqi Kurdistan have turned to the way of Jesus. They have become disciples, mostly in house churches. What the devil meant for harm, God has turned for good.
I encourage folks, instead of wringing their hands, to pray. Our Anglican services are lovely, but they are no substitute for our prayer closets and serious intercession. Please pray for us at Christ Church; our ministry—our Mercy Fund and our schools—hasn't stopped. We are grateful for the Lord's protection and the opportunity to share what we believe.
Kevin Kallsen: You have survived another Unscripted. I want to thank you so much for your time, David.
David Pileggi: I really appreciate it, Kevin. I hope to see you on the first plane to Israel—or that trip to Poland you’ve been promising for years with your Polish wife and her twin sister.
Kevin Kallsen: Yeah, we'll do that. I'll get them to call the guy. I’m Kevin Kallsen, I’ve been with David Pileggi, and this has been Unscripted. Thank you for watching.
Rev. David Pileggi is the rector of Christ Church Jerusalem, which was founded in 1849 through the work of CMJ. David has lived in Israel for more than 40 years, where he has worked as a journalist, tour guide, and Christian minister. He is married to Carol and they have three adult children together.
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